Question About Success

Persistent and clever at marketing is my thinking, too.

Being very good is a big plus but the marketing is what pays the bills, so to speak.

What does 'good' actually mean? What does 'successful' actually mean? Probably different things to different people. If you are referring to commercial success, such as being a big seller on POD sites, then I think there is an element of truth in your comment about the role of marketing in creating success, although creating work that people actually like enough to buy and put on their walls is also important.

For me, photography and 'digital art' is a hobby, so my definition of success is simply creating something I like, regardless of whether it's a good or successful product. Being clever or good at marketing has no role in my creative process. If something is a hobby, I think the most important thing is the word used in your first sentence - FUN!!

My thinking went along the lines with Phillip.

Who defines what good is? Thinking about a specific artist who is now considered a "master" painter but never lived to see that success. While he was alive he was ridiculed as not being very good at painting. Now his name is a household name.

And as the song goes... " but I could have told you Vincent, this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you."

That is something that keeps me uploading my artwork. Not everyone will like it but I do, and a few others have also.

I also agree with you Lisa. I am not sure I want to be a "success" being successful with a gallery is what made my father in law stop painting back in the 1980s. It became stressful to him trying to crank out 2 paintings a week and it stopped being fun. He was a good painter in my opinion too but he didn't want to be pressured.

Also persistance and clever marketing can sell just about anything. lol

My point of view.

Good is what serves a purpose, is functional for that moment or whenever you need it.
One thing is for sure, energy is needed to keep going, we are not machines, and even they are unreliable.

Oh, and I agree with every word above my post!

I do it for... fun!

I think a lot of it has to do with being good at marketing. You could be the most technically sound artist, but have no idea how to get your work in front of an audience. Sometimes knowing the right people and having connections helps too.

Oddly enough, I was just pondering the same thing.

Asking myself would I be more successful if I worked at taking my art to the next level, technically. Better software, better camera, better subject matter, better everything that goes into making the image. Maybe if some elements were a little sharper, or the colors brighter, or more muted. Do people even like suns? (for example). All of these things improve over time with practice and patience. But, will that improve my success?

Or, is it just being seen by the right person at the right time? It is my opinion that it's all marketing. Everything is marketed. Pet rocks were marketed.

I have zero marketing talent. If it weren't for social media, I'd be totally off the radar.

Standing out from the crowd is the trick. But how? There are a gazillion good artists competing for attention but there are always a choice few that just wow us. What is that?

The success axiom that it's not what you know, but who you know?

I don't know the answers. I do what I like. I publish what I think is cool. Hope that others like it.

I think you need to be all those things and then to be a really big success - dead.

PS - Fun sounds better to me too!

You have to have powerful lungs to be successful. But yes you need or should be good to be successful. People poor at something don't go that far. That's step one - be good at something. Step too, advertise yourself and convince others that you are good at the thing you claim you are. Step 3 depends if you want to make money or not, because that is my goal.

But the definition of good and successful varies. Making a living off what you sell is good, but that fluctuates. and you can always get better.

But you usually can ID good things, because I know you can totally ID bad things.


----Mike Savad

Only you can measure 'success', but if you are happy and having fun, doing what you love and uninterested in money, you have reached the pinnacle of 'success'.

"My thinking is you simply have to be persistent and clever in marketing. "

I totally agree with you, Lisa. I would say if you, or someone else, can consistently sell what you produce you are successful. That is as long as you define successful as generating sustainable income.

There are probably as many definitions of success as there are people who seek it, though. Perhaps for some success would be defined as being "good at it".

I consider my self successful with my photography because it fulfills me in ways that my bill paying day job does not.

A great artist might never sell their art if they don't have the business know how. A good business person however will be able to sell ice to Eskimos. That is why we need business education in the arts. Too many of our talented artists are getting lost and take advantage of.

To be successful, you need to be at the right place at the right time, with the right product.

"Good at painting" and "good at photography" are, to a large extent, subjective when applied to the art world.

"Success" presumably means financial success, as this is a POD not an academic site.

Given this it's all down to marketing, IMHO. And 'twas ever thus. In the "old days" this was through having a patron, these days it encompasses social media and more and perhaps has become more attainable. Success in general is always about "knowing the right people" one way or another.

If one has the money to open a personal gallery in town, court the relevant people with cocktail evenings, etc., then I am sure "success" would follow.

JMHO.

Being "good" at anything should increase your chances at being successful. It's just logical.

If you sell without being good, think of what might happen if you were actually skillful at it!

Of course, success covers a great deal of ground so I'm including all the related things under the umbrella, such as marketing.

I guess there are different levels of "success" and that might enter into your perspective.

Personally I would love to be "more" successful, but not necessarily famous, although that might tend to help squelch relatives from potential snide thoughts or comments toward my artistic en devours.

Success for me was creating a work of art that others appreciated enough to plunk down some money. I have had successes and failures. Success at art sometimes depends on where you live, what kind of community. I was a success at my water colors - but then I lived in two great places for art, California and North Carolina.
I am probably a total failure at internet marketing - my sales show that very plainly; thankfully I am not dependent on it for a living. I am a great failure at entering FAA/Pixels contests - I don't have enough friends - and like me - most folks do NOT go through all the entries - but look for their friends/artists that they know.
Life has been a series of successes and failures - I get over the failures and remember the successes. I have never let the failures "ruin" my life; I simply learn what I can do that is a success and what I cannot do are the failures. Learning from both and what not to do again.

How do you define success? The most successful people here have extremely good and recognizable work and have a large internet and real world presence with marketing that includes a full website and links from there to here and often to other websites or even physical galleries.

There is a buyer for everything if you are clever and persistent enough but a smattering of sales is not what most would call being successful. Having unique work or a market niche can bring a bit of success. Having extraordinary work is better.

What started out as a mere, (Fun) diversion, developed a power of it's own, and quickly became my way of life.

That was 50 years ago.

For all those decades it has been my sole means of income.

Even today, at 87, the social security I receive doesn't even cover the rent I now have to pay.

So if want to eat, be clothed, and have something remaining in the bank, I still have to hustle.

And as long as there are those that continue to buy my work, I have to believe that this ART is GOOD!!

The art world is unique in that one person's definition of "good" is another person's idea of cr@p, or they simply don't like it.

To be successful commercially you have to market one way or another, whatever you do. Throw enough money at something and it will largely become popular and successful. Just look at successful mediocre (at best) brands that exist today. the same applies to a large extent in the art world.

It's basically the Emperor's New Clothes scenario, whether it be art, cars, food, phones, clothes, or anything you want people to buy. Very little to do with quality usually, just making the product desirable.

If you define success as personal fulfilment then of course that's completely different...


EDIT: Roger - well said. You are an inspiration!

It's all (or almost all) about the marketing. A lot of very good artists have died paupers and then some mediocre artists have had great financial success. That's not to say that no successful artists are good at art, but it is to say that they (or their agents) are better at marketing than the average.

Success - From which viewpoint? Yours? Or anybody else? In your lifetime? Or after it? The answer depends.

From your viewpoint:
Are you doing your art (a) for fun or (b) trying to make a living? If (a) you have fun - then you succeed. If (b) - marketing is the most significant component on the road to success. Being good at marketing your art is not the most significant component on the road to success.

Success is when you tackle a plumbing project yourself, and it only takes one extra trip to the hardware store.

I think the idea of success is something that is harbored in the heart of each individual artist... and how they've reached what their real goals are.

Hi Lisa.
if success is to have fun with your hobby, then just keep doing what you are doing and have fun. if you are having fun with this forum then keep doing what you are doing and have fun with it,
For me, it is how not to get distracted by things like messages from various social medias. ex. like this forum lol

One thing that got me questioning the concept of success was a person trying to commission me to paint a work for them and me, I politely turned them down...yesterday.

Part of me says, "Lisa, just do it, success is worth it." The other part of me says, "Nope, go exercise, make only healthy food, drink some water and meditate on ideas."

An overweighted, drained, overworked, unhappy, unhealthy, pre diabetic Lisa with a million in the bank is definitely not worth the effort. Over the years doing a lot of my artwork has taken some time away from hiking and eating healthy, so my main thing now is self-care and seeing my art as fun and down time activity.

Well, I'll take the million too in due time. LOL...JUST kidding on the money thing.

I've often wondered the same thing, Lisa, and I think it comes down to marketing. I see people selling all the time here whose work I personally consider mediocre (but what do I know???). I see photographers WAY better than I am hardly selling anything and photographers worse than I am selling all the time.

I kind of want to really be selling more, but like you, I don't want it to become drudgery, so I guess I'll just keep on keeping on the way I'm going.

Hi Mary, yes the selling of more is alluring concept, but I'm also glad that the pipedream is over. LOL It's sort of freeing.

Lisa,

What has kept me going all these decades has been my refusal to do commissioned work of any kind.

I only create work, I want to do...Never what someone else wants me to do.

And , then, maybe, there will be someone out there that would want what I have DONE

So far, so good

Being good at marketing is far more important than being good at making art. Just like everything else in life, it's not about the smartest or hardest working, by far it's about knowing how sell yourself to others. Honestly the product or the quality of the product almost doesn't matter at all - I mean it can't be complete garbage but it certainly doesn't need to be the best or even close.

Hi Roger
That is what works for me too as I tend to do better in a gallery setting. I only have my vision and other people's has helped me grow as an artist, but mostly to grow independent of ideas that aren't my own.

Hi Tom
I have to agree 100 %. I have seen superb marketers or people who just sell themselves do well in almost every field I've worked in.

My art I do for me.
My therapeutic relaxing adventure with a brush in hand and away I go.

I have only ever agreed to one commissioned art piece.
Even then I didn't want to.

But unfortunately that person was dying and therefore I created the work.
She wanted it for her son.
I sent her a photo when completed and she loved it.


Unfortunately the day before she was due to pick it up she passed away.
So I gave it to her son that weekend from his mum.
The family offered to pay, but I said no this is from your mum and this is my gift to your mum.

I now share my art as I was told you need to let others see your work.
And I enjoy sharing it.
I do sell some originals when I can force myself to let go of some.
But the majority I keep for myself.
As I love to walk around my home and see them hanging on the walls , they make me smile.

But my work is still done for me.

And answering your questions
It depends what someone deems as good.
We all enjoy different things.
Different colours
Different animals
Different countries
Different art we like
Different photos.

Marketing isn't my theme.
But I have now put some of my art out into the world , and delighted with the responses I have had .
Selling some original artworks.
And images of my artworks.

It's great to share them.
And enjoy the interactions with other artists and creators.

 


Interesting thread, Lisa. In regard to your query — success is multifaceted. I love to create. Having the opportunity to do so is fortunate.

Most everyone looks for formulas for success, algorithms to get their work out to an audience. The bigger the better. They alter the meaning of the term "success" to describe themselves. They rationalize. At the end of the day, they simply are seeking acknowledgement.
Have a great day, FAA.

Hi Drew, I guess if you're a mathematical statistic type of person the algorithm would be interesting. I'm not sure everyone can stop all that their doing in life to make a desperate sale based on algorithms. I think just posting on every site possible for seven hours a day would probably help a lot. I'm not going to do that, but some might have the self-discipline to do just that.

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To be a great Artist or Photographer, I think is more than just taking a great picture. Publishing books or having seminars or workshops is what makes a great Artists and their names are well known. It's my opinion.

"My thinking is you simply have to be persistent and clever in marketing."

I'm halfway to this conclusion, but I would add that a certain amount of skill, creativity and the ability to pick content and style that are marketable are also essential. Whether "clever and persistent" are half, quarter, or whatever, seems to vary according to the style of art.

As someone who attends actual gallery openings for "real" artists, I've seen a lot of what's available in Baltimore, which does have a very vibrant art scene, and realize that there are people who do well by iterating out variations on a theme that they "own" (locally speaking). I've also seen lots of people that sell nothing from among their well crafted catalog.

There is something, however, that I can't define but do see, that makes one work more desirable that another, even when they are equally technically proficient. The scientist in me wants to be able to quantify this, but fortunately, I am unable to do that. Like the porn/erotica distinction, "I know it when I see it", but I'd add that I can't define it except in some basic terms that don't really catch why something can be well done, marketed well, etc and still have no interest.

If we could operationally define this, every movie would be a blockbuster and every artist would be rich and every piece of music would be a hit. Comparing it to the movie world, you do have to wonder sometimes, how so many people can spend so much money, be experts and good judges of what's good in movies, have staff, in-house critics and still produce certain big-budget products that are awful. It's obvious that in any art form, there's something out there that experts can't grasp, that makes a huge difference.

We're not there, being able to quantify this yet, thankfully.

I think it has a lot to do with reaching the right audience and building connections. Does the potential buyer relate to the art in some way? Targeted marketing, appropriate pricing and creating a relationship with buyers is critical. I wish we were able to follow up with buyers here on FAA. Honestly, most of my sales have been through connections I've made through other platforms or in person and sent here to purchase. Bottom line: it's a lot of work.

Regarding the perspective of "success," back when I used to design jewelry I had a big argument with a guy because I turned down VH1 when they wanted to do a feature on me. Everything I had made up to that point over the course of several years had been made and sold as one-of-a-kind handcrafted art jewelry. If I had that kind of exposure there would be no way I could continue working alone and making one-of-a-kind pieces, and that was pretty much the whole philosophy of my designs. He claimed I'd never be a success if I didn't go into manufacturing and take these kind of opportunities. When I retired my boutique I had people waiting six months for my designs, I just couldn't keep up. Did I get rich like Tarina Tarantino? Absolutely not, but I did pretty well... INFINITELY better than I do now, but the important thing to me was that I was able to maintain my integrity of only making one-of-a-kind pieces, which was vital for me to do for everyone who already owned one of my designs. I also would've been absolutely miserable being involved with mass production. Probably rich, but definitely miserable. I'm sure he would disagree, but I considered the venture a resounding success. It's all in how you look at it and what makes you happy.

Lisa, I have found you are exactly right, I agree. It doesn't matter if you're a musician or a photographer, etc. Marketing is the answer if you want to be great.

Every person who has spoken on this thread has made great points!


I have come to a different conclusion though due to Susan Maxwell Schmidt's response and that is keeping up with the demand becomes very difficult.

Success isn't fun.

"I only create work, I want to do...Never what someone else wants me to do.

And , then, maybe, there will be someone out there that would want what I have DONE

So far, so good"

This, to me, is what defines success as an artist. This is what I hope for.

I feel that success is truly what you make of it, if you are driven by making money then make that your goal. Personally I love sharing my artwork and do not care if anyone buys anything I just like to let people see it.

For me success would be just to have a portfolio I am proud of and sell the occasional piece of original art. I do sell on occasion but my portfolio is still far from what I want it to be. I have given up on the idea of financial success from my art because marketing just isn't my thing and never will be.

Me too, David King.

If I was driven to make money, which I am since I worked all weekend long, I would paint popular subjects...and better than what Ido now.

Right now, I aim for better work.

' Do you have to be good at painting to be successful and do you have to be good at photography to be successful. '

See it from the opposite side: do You really think bad photos sell? may be sometimes but not often.
It is a bit different with paintings (but not on POD sites). There seems to be a unvisible border. Crossing this border means, that a clique of art dealers, galleries and collectors sees potential of earning money and this does not automatically mean, that there has to be quality. Cultivating insider relationships and networking will help, but it's not a big market.

Success to me is simply participation without fear of ridicule. I have within myself established myself as a creator, i create, i promote, i don’t sell much, but i love the process, that is the only success i ever hoped to achieve.

Anything else is a bonus.

"So my question is this: Do you have to be good at painting to be successful and do you have to be good at photography to be successful."

Absolutely without a doubt!

You cannot exercise your art to the fullest without mastering the craft. You cannot be successful if you don't know what you are doing from a technical point of view. Sure there is a good chance that you create something nice, but that would be build on just that, a chance and you cannot build (sustainable) success on chance.

Success is if you accomplish what you are looking for. That is subjective and that doesn't not always mean fame of monetary awards.

E.G. In your case Lisa, you don't want to be famous so you can exercise your art in piece and quiet. What if you do become famous (against your will)? I guess that would mean you would not be successful if that happens. It might even make you miserable and if you are miserable, your art might become miserable too then sooner or later and who would call that success?

I can't fathom anything worse than being famous, that would be living in my ultimate hell. Being "known," well... maybe. Famous? Not for anything on this earth. JD Salinger ain't got nuttin' on me.

My perhaps controversial opinion - NO. It also depends on how you quantify success. As I see it being successful (if it just comes down to being well known and having your work sell for a fortune) is more down to provenance, being in the right place at the right time and having the right connections. This is how I settle in my mind how some of the work out there that clearly isn't particularly good (of course art in its various guises is subjective) sells for millions. Cynical perhaps, but the art World I always considered a bit of a con and the right people whispering in the right ears. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Susan and All,

RE:... "I can't fathom anything worse than being famous, that would be living in my ultimate hell."


Ditto


Even though, I've been recently exploring other avenues to occupy my creative urges, mind and time, what got me here, by sticking crab claws into mussel shells still dominates.

I still get a kick out of turning personally scavenged natural matter in to my own personal art.

"Art:, people still buy


HOWEVER,


If all of a sudden, everyone needed to have a Swezey Work of Art and I became famous, everything that had a value to me, no longer would exist.

It could no longer be a One Person Enterprise.

Getting out and scavenging, an activity I've enjoyed doing all these last 5 decades, picking up stuff, everyone else would just step on, would become impossible.


Being "famous" with those I'm able to meet Face to Face, is still enough for me.

I agree with what people have said here about being famous. I wouldn't want to be famous.

I'd like to be well-known enough to make a comfortable living off my art, but not so well-known that I can't go to the grocery store without being recognized or having everything I do be subject to public scrutiny.

That lifestyle would be just too much I think.

For me, I don't want to be the king, just the royal's advisor. I want the money, and not to be the target.

Give me money, I don't need the fame. Fame is too much work.


----Mike Savad

"but not so well-known that I can't go to the grocery store without being recognized"

Has that ever been a problem for any artist except maybe Salvador Dali or Andy Warhol? I really don't think any of us need fear becoming famous to that level. lol

Though I talked with a local full time pro artist earlier this year and even though she isn't "famous" in the popular sense of the word she mentioned feeling a bit overwhelmed with how much dealing with fans and collectors took her away from the easel. It doesn't really take much attention from others to eat away at your time.

Guess I was was trying to explain why great Artist or photographers who put out books on Photography, and I do know some of the well known photographers who has Workshops on weekends, three days or all week teaching the expect of being a good photographer. I don't expect to sign up for workshop classes or seminars. Really don't care to be well known anyways. I just enjoy putting out what I have.

It's about the art not the artist.

Influential people and the media is the key to success. Simple as that.

Enrique,

RE:.. "Influential people and the media is the key to success. "


I must say, that my last 50 years in art , by sticking crab claws into mussel shells, has been a success.

It has been my sole income, in paying, and never in debt, for my living ,.....with a little extra to travel annually to the far ends of this earth,

From Machu Picchu, and Rio de Janeiro, to Macao, and Ko Phi Phi, from Marrakech ,and Cairo to Dar es Salaam, and Mauritius and many other places, in between.


I never had the need of Influential people and the media as the key to my success.

I did it by actively getting out there and hustling



Edit:

And now @ 87, I'm in the position to buy, now and then, other fellow artist's work

You are one of the lucky ones Roger. If not "launched" most artists can't make a living out of their art. Fact.

This thread is most interesting! Everybody has their own idea of what "success" is and what "good" is. And no two people define "success" and "good" the same way, so of course everyone differs in their answers.

I think success is great fun! Because way back when, when I was just painting away happily, and the paintings were piling up, which led me to open an Etsy shop, I defined success as having someone BUY my art. So when I made my first Etsy sale, in my mind, I had achieved "success"!

I could not imagine someone plopping down money for my art!

Enrique,

RE:.. " one of the lucky ones"

I would not call this "Luck"

You are absolutely right David. Jamie Wyeth lives in Chester County and frequents a local townie bar nearby. I'm pretty sure everybody knows who he is but I have never seen anybody bother him. Now if Dali walked into our local hole in the wall, I'm sure he'd garner great interest.

I'd be the first in line. I wanna pet the anteater.

"You are one of the lucky ones Roger. If not "launched" most artists can't make a living out of their art. Fact."

I don't think that's clear as a fact. I don't count myself among them since I am a dilettante, but I do know, in person, people who have made a living from the bottom up, renting a table at a festival, knocking on doors at local galleries, bars and restaurants, etc. They don't have powerful or influential friends. I'm not referring to anybody who is a household name outside of our local art world, but they are people that sell enough to pay the bills without a side job bagging groceries.

My humble goal this year is to create work that has quality by ... my standards. ❤️ Love all the thoughts on this thread.